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Post by redraven on Nov 29, 2008 15:49:39 GMT -1
If anyone asks me, I will tell them the most significant thing I've ever been told about being a pagan. It was from a guy I went to Uni with, who grew up on a farm in Wiltshire. He said you can all yourself a pagan when you look after a baby rabbit, see it grow up to bea full grown bunny. Then kill it, eat it and use it's skin to clothe your children. Lot's of people say they would do it when I tell them this, but usually their eyes say something entirely different. Hey, I'm a pagan!!!!!! We had rabbits as kids, two to start with, ended up with 23 of the buggers. So, the old man shown us the necessities of killing and cutting them up. Rabbit dishes for 4 months. RR
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2008 10:25:19 GMT -1
Animal sacrifice does not play an active role in judaism as sacrafices may only be carried out in the Temple in Jerusalam which is no longer in existance.
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Post by jez on Dec 8, 2008 14:39:57 GMT -1
Except that every kosher killing is done in the name of god, as Halal killing is done in the name of Allah, surely?
Otherwise why does it matter that the meat is 'kosher'?
--
Jez
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Post by Adam on Dec 8, 2008 14:58:56 GMT -1
The Kosher laws do not, to my knowledge, relate to sacrifice... I was once asked by a jew why I thought they adhered to the kosher laws and I had this long explanation as to the sensibility of the laws re food combinations in a primitive desert environment... he stopped me half way through and said... no... we follow them because God commands it of us. Kosher killing is not about sacrificing the animal to god, but about obedience to a rule, and is far broader in application that to simple slaughter... if that is sacrifice in the broader sense, then so is avoidance of certain unclean foods and the avoidance of certain food combinations.
In Islam, on the other hand, the ritual slaughter of a sheep (or goat) specifically for sacrifice, is carried out on Eid al-Adha and the meat then distributed. This is distinct to ensuring that meat is Halal, which simply means that it's consumption is permitted by law because it is known to have been slaughtered according to the necessary procedures laid down.
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Post by jez on Dec 8, 2008 15:48:36 GMT -1
The Kosher laws do not, to my knowledge, relate to sacrifice... I was once asked by a jew why I thought they adhered to the kosher laws and I had this long explanation as to the sensibility of the laws re food combinations in a primitive desert environment... he stopped me half way through and said... no... we follow them because God commands it of us. Kosher killing is not about sacrificing the animal to god, but about obedience to a rule, and is far broader in application that to simple slaughter... if that is sacrifice in the broader sense, then so is avoidance of certain unclean foods and the avoidance of certain food combinations. In Islam, on the other hand, the ritual slaughter of a sheep (or goat) specifically for sacrifice, is carried out on Eid al-Adha and the meat then distributed. This is distinct to ensuring that meat is Halal, which simply means that it's consumption is permitted by law because it is known to have been slaughtered according to the necessary procedures laid down. Having now checked, there are specific methods of slaughter required for kosher meat, but the invoking of any name of god is not required, though it is required for meat to be halal. -- Jez - who doesn't eat halal meat (or at least, not knowingly) since she does not want to eat animals sacrificed/dedicated to a god with whom she has no common ground.
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Post by Adam on Dec 8, 2008 16:12:09 GMT -1
Jez - who doesn't eat halal meat (or at least, not knowingly) since she does not want to eat animals sacrificed/dedicated to a god with whom she has no common ground. I think you hit the nail on the head with the word dedication though... In the preparation of Halal meat Allah is invoked throughout the process of ritual slaughter as a form of dedication of the actions of the slaughterer, not as part of the process of a sacrifice of the animal... to be Halal simply means to be permissible or lawful under Islamic law, and includes behaviour and activities, not just foodstuffs Adam, who has been known to eat pretty much anything in his time
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Post by littleraven on Dec 8, 2008 19:17:03 GMT -1
Animal sacrifice does not play an active role in judaism as sacrafices may only be carried out in the Temple in Jerusalam which is no longer in existance. In Rabbinic Judaism perhaps, but I know there are Judaic sects that carry out animal sacrifice, the videos are out there you could do a search. Parts of Ethiopia springs to mind.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2008 11:58:46 GMT -1
My knowledege is based on British Orthadox Judaism, off to goggle now.
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Post by claer on Dec 9, 2008 12:31:42 GMT -1
-- Jez - who doesn't eat halal meat (or at least, not knowingly) since she does not want to eat animals sacrificed/dedicated to a god with whom she has no common ground. This is an interesting point, Jez makes about not eating meat knowingly slaughtered in this way. Unless you know you butcher well or purchase meat from direct sources - it would be difficult to know if it has or hasn't. There is no legal requirement to label the meat to say it has been slaughtered using ritual slaughter methods or not pre-stunned if sold outside Halal or Kosher shops. It has been estimated that less than half of the meat from animals slaughtered by the Jewish methods finds its way into Kosher shops. The reason for this is the consumption of certain parts of the animals’ hindquarters such as veins, lymphatic and sciatic nerve and its branches, is forbidden under Jewish law. Very few slaughterers are now trained to remove these from a carcass, so all hindquarters are rejected as not Kosher, as are any carcasses which cannot be consumed as Kosher meat for other reasons (for example, damage to the carcass). A high proportion of the meat which is declared non-Kosher is therefore sold on the open market but is not labelled as meat from animals that have been slaughtered without pre-stunning. The government have been repeatedly recommended to change this (RSPCA lobbying, HSA and FAWC reports).
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