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Post by Lee on Feb 10, 2009 9:34:38 GMT -1
I would suggest that we keep a schedule of vaguely every six months - around Beltane and Nos Calan Gaeaf. As for locations, how about places that could be perceived to be 'interesting' from a Brythonic perspective? For example, Buxton is quite central in the country. Buxton sounds good to me. also happens to be near some very nice carboniferous fossil sites im gonna start a new thread for planning this etc on the brython section.
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Post by littleraven on Feb 10, 2009 11:01:38 GMT -1
I know, LR. But it's handy, and everyone (unfortunately) knows exactly what it says on the tin. *grins, off to do some work* No, it's not handy, it's crap. It a word from child fiction about wizards and unless people here go to Hogwart's how about we leave it for people whose grasp on reality is a little vague. Identifying with HP does nothing for the public image of pagans if they want to be taken seriously.
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Post by Tegernacus on Feb 10, 2009 11:43:30 GMT -1
Agree with LR. Hideous to use that in this context. doesn't it mean "non-magical folk"? So we're magical folk? Sorry, I'm not, so I must be a muggle too. I'm a person, my religion just happens to be native British. In that respect, I'm no different to the Christian next door, the Hindu down the road, the Muslim in the next street over.... none of us are "magic folk", we're just people.
I even cringe at that other work, cowan or somesuch?
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Post by stefan on Feb 10, 2009 11:59:34 GMT -1
Hi all, I'll try to answer a few questions aimed in my direction. Re the AC course, anyone still on it will have their money paid fully honoured. The course never claimed you would become a Druid at the end of it in the first place. It has no grades, i.e. after year one you become a Bard, year two an Ovate etc. The AC was originally created as a direct rebellion against OBOD between 90/92. We perceived the grading system of a distance learning course related to the Druid castes as somewhat ridiculous. Originally the AC course was free, some people on this site will remember that. We also didn't like the concept of making money from spirituality, somewhat idealistic I guess, but the course is still the cheapest available, no ones made any money from the AC, including me. Ironically free was seen as cheap or worthless, so giving it away worked against us. People seemed to equate a high price with a better standard. Bewildering? I would love to attend a gathering, but I'm getting married in May, so will not be realistically available until June. There is another Festival at FF June 27th I think, but also happy to attend at a new location. Stephen, great to see a brief framework of your belief structure outlined. My first reply would be, that I don't understand it? Also, how about the gods themselves, can you tell me what it is you believe? For me they are an entirely human construct in their various polytheist manifestations, as you are already aware, for me they reflect the One Thing that is All.
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Post by Francis on Feb 10, 2009 17:31:55 GMT -1
Hi Steffan
Okay well I suppose the fundamentally what I believe is that there isn’t some sort of Spirit world separate and distinct from the physical one. There isn’t some magical ethereal substance that forms spirit distinct from the physical world. I believe our consciousness, and the essential Me, arises out of the physicality of our brains – A complex arrangement of cells that are connected to one another in patterns that develop and respond to external and internal events. That is I don’t believe in what Gilbert Ryle called “The Ghost in the machine”. Anyone who doubts that what it is they think of as the “conscious self they know intimately as themselves” doesn’t arise out of the physicality of their brain should read Oliver Sacks’ “The man who mistook his wife for a hat”. Many of the effects of brain lesions / injuries are just unimaginably peculiar in terms of perception and people’s conscious identity.
In my perhaps silly little world, Spirit of place arises in the same way – take the same ‘model’ and replace the brain’s nerve cells with the individual (and collective) animals and plants etc. of ecological webs. (Obviously it isn’t the same in terms of their evolution, just in terms of the result of an internally feedbacking super-complex system). If you think this couldn’t be the case because these individual environmental “cells” don’t have a common purpose – then reflect on the individuality of many of the cells of your own body.
To go into this in real detail would take pages! So to answer your more specific questions.
Are the Gods just a human construct? No. I believe that Spirit of place exists of its own self- its existence doesn’t arise out of human culture, they would exist without the existence of humans. But the physicality (i.e. the ecology of place) that their consciousness arises out of is dramatically affected by humankind. Without the existence of humans they would be different.
I suspect, but don’t hold it as a confident truth, that those consciounesses often called gods are just larger more powerful manifestations of spirit of place – and many of the same limits apply to them as spirit of place. They have existence and history independent of humans, but they too have been affected in many ways by the existence of humans.
Human culture – myth , legend, belief – affects the way humans have impacted on Spirits of Place and ultimately also the gods. The weirdest part of my madness is the answer to your question about whether ultimately all these Pools of Consciousness reflect “The One Thing That Is All”. It’s circles within circles. My individuality, my conscious self, has an integrity and a finite boundary. But obviously I don’t live in isolation either physically or mentally. I am a part of the dynamic (I move around and cross boundaries) physicality of many Spirits of Place. My physicality is part of the physicality that leads to the mentality of a Spirit of Place’s consciousness. I’m part of the physicality only though. Our minds self awareness is discreet, and although intimately linked, they are independently bounded from that of the Spirit of Place, of which we may be a physical part.
This applies also to smaller Spirits of Place being part of the physicality of physically larger ones, but still being independently conscious.
This can all sound like balls – it makes more sense with pen, paper and diagrams –but best of all when discussed face to face -No Honest it does?!!
It gets stranger still when talking of deity in connection with music etc.
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Post by chris on Feb 11, 2009 6:37:00 GMT -1
Fair enough, point taken.
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Post by chris on Feb 11, 2009 6:44:06 GMT -1
PS Hope your wedding goes well, Stefan.
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Post by chris on Feb 11, 2009 12:20:25 GMT -1
And, yes, people are people. However, in my time I have met some very magical ones from all faiths and all walks of life - and I have also encountered some very unmagical ones. The unmagical ones are those whose time is of such paramount importance that they put the lives of others in danger on the roads in their attempt to prune a few seconds from their journey. They are also those who proclaim their spiritual gifts and experience whilst simultaneously engineering the snidey disempowerment of all around them - whether these are members of their families or virtual strangers.
I'm not always terribly good at verbal or written communication, and it probably doesn't help that one of the things I believe in is not taking myself seriously. That's actually been a big process over the last 6 years, and a somewhat interesting one - but I get things wrong, often.
I believe in giving people pleasure. I don't mean people pleasing, of being something one is not in order to fit in or bolster the egos of those around ..... because that's different and all to do with giving away aspects of one's own personal power. But I like making stuff for people that celebrates the beauty and variety of nature, and that is also a delight to own and use.
There have been those on here who have shown me some of the delights of a simple path - Francis, for instance, who pointed out the beauty of frost in the creeping dawn. I've had the joy of celebrating little interludes of work with many people, from shamanism to OBOD to TDN, some of Anglican faith and even totally atheistic scientists. I don't mind what I make for people, from white robes to seriously dark drums and absolutely anything in between. All that fundamentally matters is that they are people, all really in much the same boat, all trying to make sense (as best they can) of the Mystery.
It's difficult, too, in many ways, to hear so much criticism of others and to remain impartial. As Teg and Damh The Bard says, there are good (and bad) people in so many different organizations. I'm also not saying that you lot on CF are necessarily the critical ones because I've heard just as many criticisms being aimed at you by others - but I think my issue is the one of needing not to be seen to be part of any particular group.
Of course, all my carefully thought out words have (by now) well and truly flown out of my head, and this isn't coming out quite as I had anticipated. Really, though, I think I'm increasingly feeling the need to step back from forums and message boards and gatherings, and just concentrate on doing what I can do best.
The decision is nothing at all to do with being offended (I don't take myself seriously enough to be that). Those of you who "know" me from other places know that this is a process I've actually been going through for a while now. I rarely post now, and often get it wrong when I do .... so perhaps my mind is engaged elsewhere, carving leaves of rowan or bracken (yet to be tried but on the drawing board).
I'm not sure any more that, in terms of words, I have anything to offer any forum including this. Especially this, really, 'cos you're all so clever and eloquent - and my main contribution has been in telling Lee what's the best paint to use for a project. But you've all been lovely putting up with me - and I'd love to meet some of you for "real" one day (especially LR), although, it must be said, mid west Wales is always a heck of a long way from anywhere.
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Post by stefan on Feb 11, 2009 16:13:01 GMT -1
Thanks re my wedding plans Chris. I also known what you mean re forums and I have been at times an active contributor and at other times have not been near them for many months, even years at a time. For me their relevance seems to come and go in phases.
At the moment I feel this is an important place to be. I also think issues of being critical are also very important. At the moment they are reflecting a very sincere feeling of angst and dissatisfaction. It can all start to feel very negative, but it can also spur people to-wards action. I hope ultimately thats exactly what will happen here. Once the angst is eventually off-loaded, then will come the inspiration to do something different.
Unfortunately for me Chris I have met very few magical people in the Druidic movement. The desire for power has been the prime mover in most people I've encountered who have made the effort to stand out. Its been an interesting exercise to give all my power away. A good learning curve. But what I'm most scared of now is indifference, of no longer caring. That surely seems to be the road to a total solitary form of practice. As I stand at the crossroads, one of the roads leaving it is devoid of any spiritual interaction whatsoever. It seems to be the one calling loudest at the moment. Full of exciting new adventures related to creativity, but no spiritual interaction with others.
But I'm still refusing to budge at the moment and do not want to make any hasty decisions, so I remain at the crossroads, attentive as a hawk, patient as a heron.
Stephen, I would love to have the opportunity to talk about your beliefs face to face at sometime, they sound complicated, (to my simple ways) and quite scientific which is excellent. We live in the 21st century and most not exclude any form of knowledge. I think I disagree with you, but I don't want to be rigid about that until I know more and am able to share ideas and concepts of belief with you. It sounds like one that could go on all night, fascinating.
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Post by Adam on Feb 12, 2009 10:45:09 GMT -1
Especially this, really, 'cos you're all so clever and eloquent - and my main contribution has been in telling Lee what's the best paint to use for a project. Eloquence is ephemeral, but paint sticks, darlin' ;D
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