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Post by lorna on Dec 16, 2015 10:15:39 GMT -1
I'm creating a new post in response to a topic of discussion raised within the thread on on-line shrines that seems to have gone beyond that topic. Basically I said I have a dream of seeing a time when the Brythonic gods are as well known as the Gaelic and Germanic gods and their myths are viewed as containing as much depth and inspiration and soul-knowledge and relevance for the modern-day as those of other 'pantheons'. This doesn't happen on its own. So I posed the question of whether Brython was the vehicle to make this happen. Lee and Heron replied positively saying the future of Brython and the Brython site are worth discussing. As Brython is mainly an on-line organisation (although our meet-up suggests hopefully this will change) the questions seem nearly synonymous so I've approached both here. The first question I'd like to raise is: there are clearly Brythonic polytheists out there and people interested in the Brythonic gods and their stories. How come they've showed no interest in getting involved with Brython? Is it because we look too literary and academic? Is it because discussions here are within a small clique and this puts people off? Is it because the Brython site looks inactive? The second question is more about the future of the site itself. I think the positive points about the site are that it contains good solid articles on Brythonic polytheism, individual gods and goddess, personal interactions, festivals, and some deep and moving devotional poems, prayers and hymns as well as the modern myths. The negative points are that it looks inactive and some of the links are out of date. I seem to have been pretty much the only contributor over the last couple of years and it has more the appearance of an archive than an active site. A point of comparison is Polytheist.com polytheist.com/ Admittedly this differs in being more like a blog and has the advantage of having contributors from across the world-wide polytheist community. But as a source of inspiration it is active, looks inviting, and provides a space for interaction, discussion and debate. So I'm wondering whether something more active and blog-like would supplement the Brython site (one advantage of a blog is that on wordpress at least it's free)? If so of course it would need regular contributions and we'd have to find contributors aside from us to keep it active. If we were to try that, perhaps the contributors to the Grey Mare devotional would be a good place to start. We could also approach folks who dropped out of Brython such as Robin Herne, who I've got contact details for and Nick Ford, whose contact details I could get. I also know a few Druids who honour Brythonic gods and goddesses who would possibly be willing to contribute if I asked them. It would be interesting to hear your thoughts here and better to speak in person at the meet-up
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Post by lorna on Dec 16, 2015 11:05:35 GMT -1
The more I think about it the more I like the sound of a Brython blog, perhaps with weekly contributions, and set pieces for festivals / holy days such as Heron's recent Eponalia piece.
Contributions could include:
Devotional Material
*Prayers *Poems *Hymns *Devotions *Rituals
Articles
*Brythonic gods and goddesses - scholarly research - personal interactions *Brythonic sacred sites *Brythonic festivals *Brythonic approaches to practice - shrine-making, sacred space, ritual tools, meditation, journeywork, dreamwork *The Brythonic Otherworld *Brythonic perspectives on contemporary political, environmental and ethical issues
I think we'd need to round up a small group of contributors and get at least 8 solid pieces to cover the first 2 months then hopefully interest would be generated and it would run itself?
It would be good to build bridges with other polytheist sites such as Polytheist.com and Gods & Radicals. Another good contributor would be G & R's editor Rhyd Wildermuth who might be up for providing a radical Brythonic perspective - he's a bard of the Welsh gods.
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Post by Heron on Dec 16, 2015 14:06:45 GMT -1
The more I think about it the more I like the sound of a Brython blog, perhaps with weekly contributions, and set pieces for festivals / holy days such as Heron's recent Eponalia piece. Contributions could include: Devotional Material *Prayers *Poems *Hymns *Devotions *Rituals Articles *Brythonic gods and goddesses - scholarly research - personal interactions *Brythonic sacred sites *Brythonic festivals *Brythonic approaches to practice - shrine-making, sacred space, ritual tools, meditation, journeywork, dreamwork *The Brythonic Otherworld *Brythonic perspectives on contemporary political, environmental and ethical issues I think we'd need to round up a small group of contributors and get at least 8 solid pieces to cover the first 2 months then hopefully interest would be generated and it would run itself? It would be good to build bridges with other polytheist sites such as Polytheist.com and Gods & Radicals. Another good contributor would be G & R's editor Rhyd Wildermuth who might be up for providing a radical Brythonic perspective - he's a bard of the Welsh gods. A Brython blog produced by a small group of contributors might be the best way forward in terms of an alternative to the Brython site. Wordpress or Google? I moved from Google to Wordpress and appreciate aspects of both. Google allows more functionality for those without HTML skills and also doesn't have naff adverts which you have to put up with unless you pay for an upgrade. Weebly, who host the Brython site, also have a blog facility but there are unlikely to be any links to other blogs in that format.If we want to link to specific other groups, using the same provider as them is probably simplest, which seems to mean Wordpress.
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Post by Lee on Dec 17, 2015 21:55:54 GMT -1
I am all for a more active face in the form of a blog, but agree we need to get people on board and willing to make contributions - plus we will need to have a few article and pages waiting in the wings to make use of. If this means the blog is the active face and he main site an archive and resource then that will be grand. we can move material from the blog to the site too to keep it full and collated in one place.
I have given the site a rejig in design to pre-empt some potential changes we might want to make - I have slimmed down the 'gods & goddesses' pages into one rather than a series of linked pages, also created the grey mare books page too for simplicity.
perhaps setting a date in the new year for a 'launch' will give us time to prepare some work ready to launch with. I quite like the idea of 'profile pages' for each god with a more informative slant about historical origins, perspectives, archaeological evidence etc as the basis for how we approach the gods. we can then lead on to more devotional perspectives.
as much as i like and use google for blogging, it isnt really supported any longer and a move to wordpress would be nice. the multiple authors set up on wordpress works well (having down the Gods & Radicals stuff), so perhaps a model like that where we can pre-schedule articles and all work on our own stuff. we can use CF as the discussion and planning area. maybe CF needs some tidying up?
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Post by lorna on Dec 19, 2015 12:02:48 GMT -1
@ Heron I'd personally prefer wordpress but this is only because it's the only provider I know how to use and does seem to be 'plugged' in the wider pagan and druid communities. To get rid of the ads we may have to pay for an upgrade. @ Lee Yes, the blog would be the more interactive face where people can comment on and discuss individual pieces. Great idea to move some of them onto the website. I think the two could work together really well. We would need to recruit more people and have a good line-up of solid pieces ready to go before the launch. A question we need to consider is how it will be run. The options would be: *One administrator *An administrative team *Anyone who wants to post is given the log-in and can do so I thought Rhyd took a bit of a risk allowing anybody to log in and post on Gods & Radicals so long as it fitted with the timetable. As far as I can see this has actually worked really well. Of course I'm thinking the Brython blog would be daily not weekly as its covering only Brythonic paganism. I've taken a look at the re-jig of the website. I like the new design and home page - great photograph (where is it?) and it looks much more inviting. Thanks for that. Looking through... Gods and Goddesses - much better as one Such a shame the goddesses weren't covered. In view of giving the site a bit of a re-launch I wonder if we could contact Megli and ask ?him or her? to finish it off. Brython Festivals - there's some great images and info on here. I'm wondering how well this applies to the active members of Brython at present. Should we be updating and adding to this? Core Values - looks solid to me although not all the principles apply to my own practice. Ritual - all good and plenty of room for extension. Devotional Material - there's some great stuff on here and I'd really like to see more audio and visual art added. It would be my personal inclination to keep devotions such as poems, hymns, images separate to articles (but I think we discussed this at one point and you had a reason against - can't remember what you said, apologies). Does Gwyn need two sections? Myths - all good Libary - I'm wondering if this could be extended. A few weeks back I started a Brythonic Resources page which has since been added to by Heron and Heather. lornasmithers.wordpress.com/brythonic-resources/ Admittedly this is now a bit large and unwieldy but perhaps if others see any personal favourites on there they could be added. I think this is where there are broken links. Your blog Cylch Rhiannon is listed as Aelwyd Fochon. Potia's blog Aelwyd Y Pedwar Ceffyl is dead and she now blogs at Musings of a Scottish Hearth Druid scottishdruid.wordpress.com/ The Fern Law of Faery and Gorsedd Arberth aren't active but remain good resources. Heron now blogs at The Path of the Awenydd awenydd.cymru/Grey Mare Books - Again looks good and it will be interesting to see if you receive any submissions from individual authors next year following the publication of the Mare Goddess devotional. I notice you said WE WILL BE PUBLISHING the Gwyn devotional and Brythonic intro in 2016. We've not discussed your vision for Gwyn's book or his preferred date for publication but it's my guess it's come through as before the end of 2016? so plenty to work on. I'm wondering if it would be best to separate the 'offical' Grey Mare Books from Member's publications? I'm happy for Enchanting the Shadowlands to be included under member's publications and very flattered you offered to do so but feel a bit iffy about it looking like I'm advertising my own stuff. Do the publications need to be on the front page, in the library and Grey Mare Books. I guess my worry (and some might say paranoia) is it looking like we're using the mantle of Brythonic polytheism to market ourselves. Of course we're not and we're not making any money out of selling £5 books but it may look that way. Would be interesting to hear others' thoughts on this. Yeah, there are a lot of broken links on Caer Feddwyd it will probably be a right pain to sort out over the festive period and it does needs tidying. As a general question do we need two information sites or is that just confusing? Could we harvest the best from Caer Feddwyd and add it to Brython, delete anything broken or not too relevant and just use it to keep this forum going? After all that I'm grateful for your hard work. I understand this is a lot of effort for you as manager (if that's the right word) and editor of the website, the forum and Grey Mare Books. With the blog I can only see that getting busier so not sure if in the future it may be worth delegating perhaps some areas of the website to others (that was how it worked when I was Bardic Co-ordinator for the Druid Network, I think others looked after Ritual and Deity and Mythology etc.). Just a thought anyhow and perhaps something to discuss at the meet-up?
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Post by Heron on Dec 19, 2015 15:01:33 GMT -1
@ Lorna : I can see what you mean about our books being given such prominence on the site but I don't feel that it is unreasonable for those contributing to the site to make readers aware of their other publications where these are not produced specifically for profit. On editing the site, and your comments about Lee as 'manager' , I think quite a few of us originally had editing facilities on the site and I find on checking that I still have (and have just corrected a spelling mistake in one appearance of Rigantona's name). @ Lee : presumably you're happy for others to continue to post to the site, but is it better if just one person takes charge of matters like design etc, and perhaps consults on what is or isn't compatible with the image Brython wants to convey to the wider world? lorna: I think that unfinished section on the goddesses was from the series of entries by Deiniol. The focus on these gods of the different functions is much more academic in focus that the more purely devotional material. Both are necessary and useful but I wonder how well they sit together and whether we should differentiate between historical research and contemporary devotional material in some way? I'm not sure how and I'm aware that my own stuff is sometime a mixture of the two.
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Post by Lee on Dec 19, 2015 20:42:45 GMT -1
@ Heron A question we need to consider is how it will be run. The options would be: *One administrator *An administrative team *Anyone who wants to post is given the log-in and can do so I thought Rhyd took a bit of a risk allowing anybody to log in and post on Gods & Radicals so long as it fitted with the timetable. As far as I can see this has actually worked really well. Of course I'm thinking the Brython blog would be daily not weekly as its covering only Brythonic paganism. I think a handful of trusted people who can post is the way forward. If other people want to submit, we can also do 'guest writer' pieces with proper attribution, bio and links to blogs etc. If they become more regular we can bring them into the regular writer fold as it were. Looking through... Gods and Goddesses - much better as one Such a shame the goddesses weren't covered. In view of giving the site a bit of a re-launch I wonder if we could contact Megli and ask ?him or her? to finish it off. Brython Festivals - there's some great images and info on here. I'm wondering how well this applies to the active members of Brython at present. Should we be updating and adding to this? Core Values - looks solid to me although not all the principles apply to my own practice. Ritual - all good and plenty of room for extension. Devotional Material - there's some great stuff on here and I'd really like to see more audio and visual art added. It would be my personal inclination to keep devotions such as poems, hymns, images separate to articles (but I think we discussed this at one point and you had a reason against - can't remember what you said, apologies). Does Gwyn need two sections? Myths - all good As Heron said, it was Deiniol who wrote that part. I am friends with him on Facebook and could ask him. He hasn't blogged in a while either - became a teacher and is probably worked to lifelessness. Worth a shot though. I agree the festivals section could do with a work over to add to it a bit. incorporating some personal practices would be good I think. Devotional Material - Gwyn probably could be condensed down a bit. I think part of the reason I said they were better off all together was to do with the menu structure at the top of the old page layout; it only allowed 7 or 8 tab before sticking everything else into a 'more' tab which REALLY offends my slightly OCD aesthetics. the new set up doesn't work in the same way so there is now the definite option of having 'essays' that draw more on history, literature and the more 'academic' side of where our practices grow from, and then a devotional section which is more about the hymns, poems, artwork...all those things we do where we take the 'academic' and shape it into a system of practice and belief as it were. As we get more articles based pieces I can start to split it all up a bit more. Libary - I'm wondering if this could be extended. A few weeks back I started a Brythonic Resources page which has since been added to by Heron and Heather. lornasmithers.wordpress.com/brythonic-resources/ Admittedly this is now a bit large and unwieldy but perhaps if others see any personal favourites on there they could be added. I think this is where there are broken links. Your blog Cylch Rhiannon is listed as Aelwyd Fochon. Potia's blog Aelwyd Y Pedwar Ceffyl is dead and she now blogs at Musings of a Scottish Hearth Druid scottishdruid.wordpress.com/ The Fern Law of Faery and Gorsedd Arberth aren't active but remain good resources. Heron now blogs at The Path of the Awenydd awenydd.cymru/ Totally agree - the library can be extended. The blogs can be updated somewhat and links fixed. I think I will do that lot tonight... it will also look a lot nicer when I have finished (ideas in mind!) Grey Mare Books - Again looks good and it will be interesting to see if you receive any submissions from individual authors next year following the publication of the Mare Goddess devotional. I notice you said WE WILL BE PUBLISHING the Gwyn devotional and Brythonic intro in 2016. We've not discussed your vision for Gwyn's book or his preferred date for publication but it's my guess it's come through as before the end of 2016? so plenty to work on. I'm wondering if it would be best to separate the 'offical' Grey Mare Books from Member's publications? I'm happy for Enchanting the Shadowlands to be included under member's publications and very flattered you offered to do so but feel a bit iffy about it looking like I'm advertising my own stuff. Do the publications need to be on the front page, in the library and Grey Mare Books. I guess my worry (and some might say paranoia) is it looking like we're using the mantle of Brythonic polytheism to market ourselves. Of course we're not and we're not making any money out of selling £5 books but it may look that way. Would be interesting to hear others' thoughts on this. I have taken off the links on the Library page to the books - once the Grey Mare page went up, it kind of replaced the need for them on there. I am happy for you and Heron's books to be on there - as long as you are too. As Heron said, it isn't unreasonable at all. As we get the blog up and running and I put a 'blog feed' on the front page, I can reduce the prominence of those book links too. Yeah, there are a lot of broken links on Caer Feddwyd it will probably be a right pain to sort out over the festive period and it does needs tidying. As a general question do we need two information sites or is that just confusing? Could we harvest the best from Caer Feddwyd and add it to Brython, delete anything broken or not too relevant and just use it to keep this forum going? After all that I'm grateful for your hard work. I understand this is a lot of effort for you as manager (if that's the right word) and editor of the website, the forum and Grey Mare Books. With the blog I can only see that getting busier so not sure if in the future it may be worth delegating perhaps some areas of the website to others (that was how it worked when I was Bardic Co-ordinator for the Druid Network, I think others looked after Ritual and Deity and Mythology etc.). Just a thought anyhow and perhaps something to discuss at the meet-up? This is where it gets complicated... Prior to Brython, there was the CF forum which started in 2005, which Blackbird hosted on her own website for her work. this is also where she created the CF website front part which is where the encyclopaedia etc is. Only she can update or change it. Brython grew out from there/here and a couple of years ago most people had gone quiet, during a busy period on here we got the current Brython website up and running. I think that the CF front end and forum are entirely entwined and dont know how often Blackbird sees the forums. As Francis recently popped in - maybe she will too then we only need to get Littleraven back too.
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Post by Lee on Dec 19, 2015 20:53:06 GMT -1
@ Lorna : I can see what you mean about our books being given such prominence on the site but I don't feel that it is unreasonable for those contributing to the site to make readers aware of their other publications where these are not produced specifically for profit. On editing the site, and your comments about Lee as 'manager' , I think quite a few of us originally had editing facilities on the site and I find on checking that I still have (and have just corrected a spelling mistake in one appearance of Rigantona's name). @ Lee : presumably you're happy for others to continue to post to the site, but is it better if just one person takes charge of matters like design etc, and perhaps consults on what is or isn't compatible with the image Brython wants to convey to the wider world? lorna: I think that unfinished section on the goddesses was from the series of entries by Deiniol. The focus on these gods of the different functions is much more academic in focus that the more purely devotional material. Both are necessary and useful but I wonder how well they sit together and whether we should differentiate between historical research and contemporary devotional material in some way? I'm not sure how and I'm aware that my own stuff is sometime a mixture of the two. I dont want to come across as a control freak, though as long as people dont mind if I edit work they add to keep style/fonts/formatting etc consistent then I am all for several people editing the site. It is all fairly straightforward and i can be asked if anyone runs into trouble. It isnt too much work either - its quite a nice way to spend an hour doing a re-jig. Something that Heather's long post in the welcome section reminded me off. In it she said - I cant scan through it all to find the sentences, too much in front of my eyes - we should explain about tribes, maps, how to ronounce names, explain all about Arthur and a load of other things too as people simply don't know the reality. Brython was always about sharing experience, I don't think we ever intended to be a single stop shop for everything from British polytheism 101 to academic discussion. it was always about us sharing what we research and what we find in our dealings with the gods to work towards a recreation rather than a reconstruction. Hence why our hymns and essays are almost exclusively about gods we have dealings with rather than something about Arthur for instance. How do you feel about that approach? Should we be looking at doing pronunciation guides? maps of th British tribes (or several in fact, we have over 1000 years of changing history and cultures to cover)? I like where Brython was, I really like where we are going too. I don't see me writing essays and devotionals to gods I have nothing to do with, I do see more on the gods I do have dealings with and those who start getting involved with my life (Nodens stuff incoming in the new year most likely).Continuing the original ethos of Brython, but sharing it wider and 'promoting' it and those gods is I think the most obvious route for us. What do you folk think?
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Post by Heron on Dec 21, 2015 9:47:18 GMT -1
... Something that Heather's long post in the welcome section reminded me off. In it she said - I cant scan through it all to find the sentences, too much in front of my eyes - we should explain about tribes, maps, how to ronounce names, explain all about Arthur and a load of other things too as people simply don't know the reality. Brython was always about sharing experience, I don't think we ever intended to be a single stop shop for everything from British polytheism 101 to academic discussion. it was always about us sharing what we research and what we find in our dealings with the gods to work towards a recreation rather than a reconstruction. Hence why our hymns and essays are almost exclusively about gods we have dealings with rather than something about Arthur for instance. How do you feel about that approach? Should we be looking at doing pronunciation guides? maps of th British tribes (or several in fact, we have over 1000 years of changing history and cultures to cover)? I like where Brython was, I really like where we are going too. I don't see me writing essays and devotionals to gods I have nothing to do with, I do see more on the gods I do have dealings with and those who start getting involved with my life (Nodens stuff incoming in the new year most likely).Continuing the original ethos of Brython, but sharing it wider and 'promoting' it and those gods is I think the most obvious route for us. What do you folk think? Lee, I take you point about us not being able to be a one-stop shop for the whole Brythonic ethos. Or, rather, I think if we do aspire to that it would need to come from us having a sufficient number of committed individuals following personal commitments to individual gods or specific areas of interest. We each need to do what we are called to do but at the same time if we are promoting ourselves as a community we need to have some sort of group identity to enable others to know who and what we are. So this is difficult. In fact we already have some stuff on the site which attempts to give a broad overview but which isn't actually a part of anyone's devotional focus. Should we perhaps look at putting that stuff 'behind' the purely devotional material in some way, so people see it as supporting the foregrounded devotional things rather than simply sitting alongside them?
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Post by lorna on Dec 21, 2015 13:58:02 GMT -1
Firstly @lee thankyou for sorting out the Library section. The blog links look really good now Following the on-going discussion between Lee and Heron - Heron - 'I think that unfinished section on the goddesses was from the series of entries by Deiniol. The focus on these gods of the different functions is much more academic in focus that the more purely devotional material. Both are necessary and useful but I wonder how well they sit together and whether we should differentiate between historical research and contemporary devotional material in some way? I'm not sure how and I'm aware that my own stuff is sometime a mixture of the two.' Lee - 'Something that Heather's long post in the welcome section reminded me off. In it she said - we should explain about tribes, maps, how to ronounce names, explain all about Arthur and a load of other things too as people simply don't know the reality. Brython was always about sharing experience, I don't think we ever intended to be a single stop shop for everything from British polytheism 101 to academic discussion. it was always about us sharing what we research and what we find in our dealings with the gods to work towards a recreation rather than a reconstruction. Hence why our hymns and essays are almost exclusively about gods we have dealings with rather than something about Arthur for instance. How do you feel about that approach? Should we be looking at doing pronunciation guides? maps of th British tribes (or several in fact, we have over 1000 years of changing history and cultures to cover)?... Continuing the original ethos of Brython, but sharing it wider and 'promoting' it and those gods is I think the most obvious route for us. What do you folk think?' Heron - 'Lee, I take you point about us not being able to be a one-stop shop for the whole Brythonic ethos. Or, rather, I think if we do aspire to that it would need to come from us having a sufficient number of committed individuals following personal commitments to individual gods or specific areas of interest. We each need to do what we are called to do but at the same time if we are promoting ourselves as a community we need to have some sort of group identity to enable others to know who and what we are. So this is difficult. In fact we already have some stuff on the site which attempts to give a broad overview but which isn't actually a part of anyone's devotional focus. Should we perhaps look at putting that stuff 'behind' the purely devotional material in some way, so people see it as supporting the foregrounded devotional things rather than simply sitting alongside them?' I think that if we are providing a public face for Brythonic Polytheism we do need to put forward a coherent 'group identity' even if our paths and commitments to individual deities differ. I think the Personal Interactions section gives a good sense of the personal side. The Core Values section is solid but I personally feel it needs re-writing with a more devotional focus in a less heavy and academic manner. For example the definition of the gods as 'independent functioning entities' comes across as cold and off-putting. It doesn't speak to me about what is like to have personal living devoted relationships with the gods. I'd also like to see more on ethics and the environment. I would like to work toward a basic and accessible intro to the background of Brythonic polytheism - its grounding in archaeology, Roman texts (and problems with Roman sources and Brythonic oral tradition), medieval Welsh vernacular texts, folk and fairylore, developments from Druidry and Celtic Recon and modern identity and relationship with the Devotional Polytheist movement. In terms of accessibility I think it would be good if we could provide intros (3-500 words max) to each god and goddess with links to articles and devotional material. Whilst I don't think we should go all 'Teen Wicca' I think it is important we are accessible to young people and don't want to come across as academic and stuffy. I think this is what puts people off. So I think we should have an accessible and enticing face with the academic stuff backgrounded, but there for those who want to dig deeper. I think the 'Gods and Goddesses' piece is interesting and valuable but it is isn't exciting or inspirational and wouldn't lead me to want to be involved with Brython. Again I think we could do with something focusing more on lived devotional relationship with the gods in the here and now. And why the gods and their stories are important and can help us deal with the political and environmental issues we face today.
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Post by Francis on Dec 21, 2015 23:32:21 GMT -1
I think the 'Gods and Goddesses' piece is interesting and valuable but it is isn't exciting or inspirational and wouldn't lead me to want to be involved with Brython. Again I think we could do with something focusing more on lived devotional relationship with the gods in the here and now. And why the gods and their stories are important and can help us deal with the political and environmental issues we face today. Agreed a focus on relationship with the gods and Spirits of Place in the here and now is crucial. The information available on the site in this section doesn't inspire, or offer much confidence, to the majority of folk on what to do with it, or how to take the next steps. Perhaps a little more hand holding or at least a more explicit indication that suggestions and some guidance would be warmly available if asked for?
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Post by Lee on Dec 22, 2015 14:26:25 GMT -1
As I have pillaged my kindle of readable books for my morning and evening commute, I have had bit of think How about: *Core values - rewritten or fleshed out, either way to be more representative. *Gods and Goddesses - moved behind the scenes for now (invisible) *Gods and Ungods - from here are links to individual god pages; a profile of sorts (drawing on the older gods and goddesses essay as a basis) but with more archaeological and British focus, also here we have the devotional hymns,ritual, prayers and poetry. also link from these pages to the essays that are relevant. Include the ancestors, andedion, spirits of place work too. Persoanl Interactions from 'ritual' go here too. *Ritual - absorbed into the Gods and Ungods *Festivals - updated and fleshed out with more practical 'what we did over midwinter' type of writing too *Essays - this is where the more academic and researched material goes; Deiniol's essay, Lorna's Gwyn essays, other bits and pieces The Myths, Library and Grey Mare books pages can stay as they are. Mostly this is a rejigging of the core of the site and updating the peripheral pages too. As it is a pretty bit change (content shifting wise, not too time consuming to do), it will be best to do when we have the content ready to go - so at the bare minimum we would need to have profiles -Gods I hate using that term for this - ready for each of the gods we have devotional pages for at the moment. Over the christmas break - I am off now till the 4th Jan - i can harvest come content and create some threads on here where we can all do some input to get them ready if you all fancy. I will do it in the Dea. Prov. Brit. subforum above. What do you guys reckon? am I missing anything or is there something totally new we could add in? The on-line shrines stuff is still in my mind and I think would work with this set up, I just need to find a good model and the code to create it. The 'statues' we create for the devotional pages - statues sounds better than profiles - can also form the basis of some blog posts on the new blog next year, and new ones we create can be premiered on there too
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Post by Heron on Dec 24, 2015 10:36:22 GMT -1
Looks like we're moving in the right direction here.
Looking forward to seeing how this develops and the re-invigorated image of Brython!
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Post by lorna on Dec 25, 2015 10:53:22 GMT -1
@ Lee, sounding good Do let us know when the threads are up and where you'd like input and from whom. From what I can see we need something like the following: *Core Values rewrite with a much more devotional focus and discussion of the relevance of Brythonic mythology and lived relationships with the land, gods and ancestors for the contemporary world. Plus our take on environmental, ethical and political issues. *Gods & Ungods 1) Accessible introduction to the Brythonic gods and goddesses 2) Individual intros to 'statue' pages for each deity 3) Intros to working with ancestors, spirits of place, andedion / spirits of Annwn (and possible cautionary notes!) *Festivals - update and flesh out Additionally do we need a basic 'What is Brythonic Polytheism'? For the intro to the gods and goddesses I think a quote I remember Heron shared on TDN (may be misquoted) would be a good place to start - 'The Gods: In nature they are powers in culture they have form' - this really helped me understand the nature of the gods and why we sometimes experiences them as powers within nature and why they sometimes appears as persons. I've witnessed a lot of horrid arguments about 'anthromporphising' deities and it is important to me to get across that the gods appear as they choose - as natural powers and in anthropomorphic or zoomorphic forms - and both are equally valid from the beginning.
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Post by Heron on Dec 27, 2015 16:47:54 GMT -1
Additionally do we need a basic 'What is Brythonic Polytheism'? Yes, providing we can agree on a definition -Overlaps with Goidelic? Influences from Germanic? Is Lugus a 'Pan-Celtic' god and are there others? I'm inclined to draft something, but we'll see. For the intro to the gods and goddesses I think a quote I remember Heron shared on TDN (may be misquoted) would be a good place to start - 'The Gods: In nature they are powers in culture they have form' - this really helped me understand the nature of the gods and why we sometimes experiences them as powers within nature and why they sometimes appears as persons. I've witnessed a lot of horrid arguments about 'anthromporphising' deities and it is important to me to get across that the gods appear as they choose - as natural powers and in anthropomorphic or zoomorphic forms - and both are equally valid from the beginning. The actual quote was : "In nature they are presences; in culture they have form." which is almost the same thing but avoids being specific about their activities. It would be interesting to hear preferences between 'powers' and 'presences' as a description of the way we perceive the gods in nature, as opposed to the way we describe their activities in myths and devotional rites.
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Post by Francis on Dec 29, 2015 10:53:07 GMT -1
Additionally do we need a basic 'What is Brythonic Polytheism'? Yes, providing we can agree on a definition A very difficult task! I would like to revisit the question about what we mean by Gods. My view is that there isn't a qualitative difference between Spirits of Place and Gods - that perhaps it's about the extent and magnitude of their Sphere of influence that leads to some arbitrary human perceived difference. For example I believe that the major Spirit of Place of my own Valley (or more accurately the watershed / water catchment area but that's a different discussion!) is a god - but with a more limited geographical Sphere of influence" than say a god of smithing. We've spoken before about the evidence for universal "celtic" gods being at best very limited - and whilst appreciating that absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence - I do think that together with our experience of interacting with 'gods' and 'SoP', as discussed previously, Brythonic Polytheism isn't to be based around some clear Pantheon with a common narrative (or certainly not all with a common narrative) like some Mount Olympus soap opera - but that they are perhaps typically very discreet and very local - possibly with a small number with much wider influence?
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Post by lorna on Dec 29, 2015 17:29:12 GMT -1
@ Heron
Yes do go ahead and draft a definition. Then perhaps we can debate finer points as they're presented.
I guess Lugus would be a bad one for me to start with. I've never met Lugus, Lugh or Llew in person (although I've worked with the stories of the latter and am developing a feel for who he is).
Something I did want to ask was whether we should be going back to the Indo-European roots of Brythonic Polytheism - I know Lee and others have done a lot of work in this area whereas my focus tends to be mainly on Romano-British and Welsh deities. If so then I think we at least need an understanding of origins and why we have Germanic and Goidelic overlap.
@ Francis - you make some good points. Whilst my river goddess, Belisama, is also viewed as a goddess in her own right, I connect with others spirits of place who aren't known gods and goddesses but feel just as important and powerful. There's no clear dividing line.
Whilst there are some gods and goddesses a few Brython members share a commonality in connecting with, such as Epona-Rigantona, Brigantia and Gwyn ap Nudd, I think it's important not to try and present them as a 'pantheon'. Whereas some are clearly related - such as 'the House of Don' and 'The House of Llyr' not everybody fits neatly into that framework.
Our challenge will be to provide an accessible intro without over-simplifying and glossing over differences.
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Post by Lee on Dec 29, 2015 23:15:47 GMT -1
A very difficult task! I would like to revisit the question about what we mean by Gods. My view is that there isn't a qualitative difference between Spirits of Place and Gods - that perhaps it's about the extent and magnitude of their Sphere of influence that leads to some arbitrary human perceived difference. For example I believe that the major Spirit of Place of my own Valley (or more accurately the watershed / water catchment area but that's a different discussion!) is a god - but with a more limited geographical Sphere of influence" than say a god of smithing. We've spoken before about the evidence for universal "celtic" gods being at best very limited - and whilst appreciating that absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence - I do think that together with our experience of interacting with 'gods' and 'SoP', as discussed previously, Brythonic Polytheism isn't to be based around some clear Pantheon with a common narrative (or certainly not all with a common narrative) like some Mount Olympus soap opera - but that they are perhaps typically very discreet and very local - possibly with a small number with much wider influence? I would agree, the distinction is more of a spectrum with shades of grey that apply differently in different places, to different people at different times. its all a bit murky. given that all Indo-European cultures share a common ancestor and as such their gods do too, there are some clear 'Pan-' gods or at least common moulds gods fit into across the Celtic lot and further afield. you have the smith gods, farmer gods etc. off the top of my head the commonalities lie within the spheres of human culture; blacksmith, the many skilled god, tutelary gods. I think generally, the gods tend to be more cross cultural with obvious and clear common shared roots whilst the goddesses are more linked to the local landscape. Deity taxonomy is not something we should even contemplate getting involved in - fungi are bad enough, gods would be a nightmare. as for a pantheon - within Brythonic Polytheism and Brython itself i guess it is more like Tesco across the UK - stuff you can get in every branch and other things more locally restricted or seasonal. emphasising this is important i think.
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Post by Heron on Jan 6, 2016 18:58:11 GMT -1
@ Heron Yes do go ahead and draft a definition. Then perhaps we can debate finer points as they're presented. Have tried a few times to draft a definition of Brythonic Polytheism, which I did not think would be very difficult, but finding something definitive that is without "yes but ..." reservations is not that easy. But I'm going to attempt a simple basic paragraph here with a following amplification to see what the response is. Please feel free to pick it apart or develop it so we can arrive at something that we all feel comfortable with. Brythonic Polytheism is a religious practice based on a devotional relationship with one or more of the gods worshipped by the Brythonic peoples inhabiting Britain and Gaul in the Ancient World. Brythonic polytheists recognise a range of goddesses and gods, some of whom are attested from records or sites of worship in Roman Britain and Gaul, some of whom survived in later stories and other writings, particularly in Welsh which were constructed from oral tales reflecting a continuity of reference from earlier times.
Polytheists recognise a number of gods and accept the presence of many more beyond their personal experience. But as polytheism is an experiential religion, individual polytheists may focus on only a small number of deities, or even a single deity, in their devotional practice. The appearance of deity is multi-faceted, but falls into two main categories:
- The perception of deity felt directly and experienced as a distinctive individual, bound up with a sense of belonging to the land and the deity's presence in the landscape. - The parallel presence of deity as an identified individual in traditional tales, myths, images and celebrated in the cultural life of a people.
So Brythonic polytheists continue to experience the presence of deities in the lands of Britain and beyond and seek relationships with them through that experience. They also continue to celebrate them by reconstructing earlier representations of them and their appearances in later folklore, poetry, tales and other cultural forms and by shaping new cultural expressions for our own time based on individual insight and a shared social sense of their continuing presence for us. Devotional practice develops from this making them an important part of our lives as lived from day to day as well as on special occasions.
That's already longer than the brief basic definition I intended. So I'll leave it there for comment.
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