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Post by Craig on Oct 14, 2008 15:51:20 GMT -1
you're talking about caring and sharing with the tribe, looking out for one another... that's downright un-Christian... Given the current state of affairs, and the me-me-me approach of its members I'd say that it's downright un-Pagan
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Post by Tegernacus on Oct 14, 2008 15:53:55 GMT -1
I was joking, but dammit you're right!
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Post by megli on Oct 27, 2008 12:23:55 GMT -1
Tylwyth is from british *tegoluktos, or *tegoluxtos. The x in the latter form means the Welsh -ch- sound, not x like in our word 'axe'.
'The household people, host, family'. (*tegon, house, = W. ty, and llwyth, 'people', irish lucht. It's thus very similar semantically to teulu, 'family, war-band' from *tegoslugos, 'house(hold)-host'.
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Post by arth_frown on Oct 27, 2008 14:30:53 GMT -1
Thanks megli
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Post by Tegernacus on Oct 27, 2008 20:08:16 GMT -1
ahhh... can I ask something?
I watch a lot of Roman documentaries, and they pronounce Vercingetorix in a multitude of ways, usually Ver-sin-get-o-ricks. I always thought it was Ver-kin-get-o-rich (like Marlene Dietrich). Am I wrong, or am I driving myself nuts for nowt?
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Post by megli on Oct 27, 2008 20:21:07 GMT -1
Mixture of both. He would have said:
Wer-king-ET-o-riks (ver= over, Welsh gor, cingeto(s) = 'warrior, trampler', Irish cingid, rix, 'king' = Irish ri, obselete W. rhi.) It means 'Over-stepping king' 'king who tramples on [his enemies]', 'super-warrior-king'.
That Gaulish (and British) for 'king' was 'rix' (Latin 'rex') shows you just how close Gaulish and Latin were (both Indo-European, of course) and how easy it would have been for Gaulish/British speakers to gradually shift to speaking Latin.
The standard English pronuciation is Ver-sing-GET-oh -riks.
PS Wikipedia gives a very unlikely - probably impossible - second etymology and describes this one as 'unproven' - but it is the logical, commonsensical and obvious one to Celtic philologists.
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Post by Tegernacus on Oct 27, 2008 21:13:38 GMT -1
thanks, you're a star
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Post by megli on Oct 27, 2008 21:44:35 GMT -1
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Post by Craig on Oct 28, 2008 7:10:29 GMT -1
So to summarise...
The Tribe is 'Tylwyth Rigantona'. Individual and usually regional groups within the Tribe would call themselves 'Aelwyd ...insert suitable name here...'. 'Permanent' temples or shrines would be 'Nyfed ...insert suitable name here...'. When we hold a feast or festival, such as a camp it would be 'Gŵyl ...insert suitable name here...'. Specific calender or life ceremonies/rituals would be Defod ...insert suitable name here...', Or will we use 'Aberth ...insert suitable name here...'.?
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Post by Lee on Oct 28, 2008 7:31:17 GMT -1
just the sort of thing i was thinking of doing craig the one thing - tylwyth - was being endered into brythonic - 'Toloktos' i think it was. i quote like 'Toloktos Rigantona'
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Post by megli on Oct 28, 2008 15:21:12 GMT -1
*Tegoluktos - I checked (see above). It should be (IMHO) either 'Tegoluktos Rigantonas' [Rigantonas was the genitive case of Rigantona] or Tylwyth Rhiannon, but not, I think, a mixture.
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Post by megli on Oct 28, 2008 15:41:00 GMT -1
Incidentally, with regard to 'aelwyd' - in Welsh there is a rule that a proper name in the genitive (i.e., '....of personage/placename X') dependent on a feminine noun undergoes soft mutation:
merch Lyr, 'daughter of Llyr' [with soft muation of ll->l because merch is feminine] ynys Brydain, 'the Island of Britain' [Prydain to Brydain because Ynys is feminine] Eglwys Rufain, 'the Church of Rome' [Rhufain to Rufain because Eglwys is feminine] BUT mab Llyr 'son of Llyr' [no soft mutation because mab is masculine]
'Aelwyd' is feminine. This means that if you want any future aelwyd to be the 'aelwyd of person/placename X' you need to soft mutate the noun X.
Thus 'Branwen's Aelwyd' would be Aelwyd Franwen, 'Gwydion's Aelwyd' would be Aelwyd Wydion, and 'The Bristol (Welsh Bryste) Aelwyd' would be Aelwyd Fryste; but 'The Aelwyd of Horses' would be Aelwyd Meirch, not **Aelwyd Feirch, because 'horse' is not a proper name or a place-name.
Hope that makes sense. 'Tylwyth' is masculine, so the issue doesn't arise - hence Tylwyth Rhiannon, not **Tylwyth Riannon.
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Post by potia on Oct 28, 2008 15:44:45 GMT -1
For consistencies sake shouldn't we stick to Welsh? I believe the other terms agreed on are Welsh.
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Post by megli on Oct 28, 2008 15:47:50 GMT -1
Trouble is, why Welsh and not Cornish, or Breton, which are just as Brythonic? No I agree, I vote for keeping terminology Welsh as far as possible, if only for selfish reasons because it's me that has to do the putting things into British and it's not that straightforward sometimes
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Post by potia on Oct 28, 2008 15:49:47 GMT -1
Not being able to speak any of them I have no preference - it's all greek to me I just think we should be consistent for simplicities sake.
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Post by Lee on Oct 28, 2008 16:02:40 GMT -1
so Aelwyd Fochon for instance?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2008 16:13:36 GMT -1
I'll have to learn to say something other than "window" and "cup of tea" in Welsh, I suppose I'd forgotten about the masculine/feminine problem, argh. That gave me a headache last time, that and the name of that very long town, which I will be referring to as "Llan-wotsit" for the rest of my days.
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Post by megli on Oct 28, 2008 16:22:13 GMT -1
Aelwyd Fochon is perfect - tho' Mochon is of course a non-attested Welsh descendant of Mocconos! (as you know)
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Post by arth_frown on Oct 28, 2008 16:30:29 GMT -1
Sorry Megli, but how would you say deer in Brython?
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