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Post by Lee on Oct 12, 2008 16:14:39 GMT -1
something that came up at flag fen. terminology... we need to put one together. by using a common language we build on a shared tadition. i might have this wrong.
Nemeton - a group of brythons who work together regularly. our version of a grove.
"that word LR said" - tribe, a close association of people who gather infrequently, like the heathen Kindred. an extended family of sorts.
then there are words for the rituals: the heathen blot equivalent (share food and rink with each other, gods and ancestors etc)
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Post by arth_frown on Oct 12, 2008 18:25:57 GMT -1
It would be great to have brythonic terminology.
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Post by arth_frown on Oct 12, 2008 20:10:09 GMT -1
Having thought about it. I think nemeton is more about the land rather than the people. LR said the word last night. What was it?
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Post by littleraven on Oct 12, 2008 21:39:46 GMT -1
Having thought about it. I think nemeton is more about the land rather than the people. LR said the word last night. What was it? Tylwyth: the people, the tribe, the wider 'communion'. Nemeton: the place of ritual, the sacred precinct What we need is a suitable alternative to 'Hearth', the group of people gathered together. We *could* use Gorsedd as that can represent a place anda group of people, which is how I understood it in Heathen terms. But best of all (IMHO) is if it's possible to have Megli render these terms into Ancient British so being truer to the ancestors, and divorcing oursleves from the modern usage. |
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Post by Tegernacus on Oct 13, 2008 4:43:48 GMT -1
well, there is aelwyd, which means hearth, fireside, home ("he came from a good home"), kin, stock ("she is from good Welsh stock"). Perfectly good word imo
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Post by megli on Oct 13, 2008 7:03:33 GMT -1
Oh bollocks...er...yes, I can, but I need a library first. Have to go and teach Branwen later so will check in the Faculty. Might be easier to put everything in Welsh: nemeton is nyfed (which I don't think occurs as a modern welsh word - correct me if I'm wrong, native speakers - but it certainly appears in Math f. Mathonwy and in place names.) Rhymes with Dyfed.
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Post by megli on Oct 13, 2008 7:04:52 GMT -1
aelwyd is a v. good suggestion Teg, I think, as it occurs by metonymy in 'Aelwyt reget' for the whole of the cast down kingdom/community.
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Post by Tegernacus on Oct 13, 2008 7:13:35 GMT -1
I always thought Nyfed was a mutation of Dyfed. (Yn Nyfed) wicipedia-- no, you're right: Welsh-English English-Welsh Dictionary H. Meurig Evans, M.A. & W. O. Thomas, B.A. page 346 of the Welsh-English section: *nyfed, eb. teml, llwyn sanctaidd. TEMPLE, SANCTUARY On the 'Abbreviations" page before page 1 it notes: * = obsolete words or meanings Apparently it also occurs in Cornish as neved (unverified) --- alternatively there is llannerch (glade, clearing) which is apparently where the Llan name for early Christian sites and churches comes from. This is interesting: www.roman-britain.org/british_groves.htm |
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Post by Lee on Oct 13, 2008 8:23:42 GMT -1
Having thought about it. I think nemeton is more about the land rather than the people. LR said the word last night. What was it? Tylwyth: the people, the tribe, the wider 'communion'. Nemeton: the place of ritual, the sacred precinct What we need is a suitable alternative to 'Hearth', the group of people gathered together. We *could* use Gorsedd as that can represent a place anda group of people, which is how I understood it in Heathen terms. But best of all (IMHO) is if it's possible to have Megli render these terms into Ancient British so being truer to the ancestors, and divorcing oursleves from the modern usage. i think those two above plus Tegs 'aelwyd' for hearth would be perfect for the job. they would certainly cover current and near future needs. i would think that for now we would be our own aelwyd, occassionally gathering as a tylwth and at both times recognising the space we are in as the nyfed. |
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Post by arth_frown on Oct 13, 2008 9:41:35 GMT -1
i think those two above plus Tegs 'aelwyd' for hearth would be perfect for the job. they would certainly cover current and near future needs. i would think that for now we would be our own aelwyd, occassionally gathering as a tylwth and at both times recognising the space we are in as the nyfed. I agree, It would be nice to change the group I'm with from grove to aelwyd. It would shown a clear distinction from a druid group. What about the word ritual would we change it something more brythonic? |
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Post by littleraven on Oct 13, 2008 11:04:08 GMT -1
So, Tylwyth, Aelwyd and Nyfed it is then!
Now, a word for the rite/ritual. As our model seems very much to be the 'blot', what does blot translate as?
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Post by Tegernacus on Oct 13, 2008 11:08:21 GMT -1
blot?
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Post by Craig on Oct 13, 2008 11:45:46 GMT -1
Ritual? Hmmm...
Perhaps we should actually use names for each type. So for life rituals we would need words for:
birthing
naming
coming of age [flowering]
marriage
croning
death
For community gatherings it depends on the purpose. The sort of gatherings I could imagine would be for:
Counsel meetings - where the community gathers to decide the way forward.
Celebrations - possibly linked to classic annual festivals, or just to be with our tribe
Rades
Teaching and sharing
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Post by Craig on Oct 13, 2008 11:48:46 GMT -1
Tylwyth Brython? I like the direction you are taking with Nyfed and Aelwyd. I claim Nyfed Mawddach  |
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Post by potia on Oct 13, 2008 11:51:01 GMT -1
Jez will be able to clarify this but my understanding of the term blot is a ritual feast which used to involve a ceremonical animal sacrifice. I think the term blot has a translated meaning of blood but I could be wrong From chats with heathens I know most blots now involve the sacrifice of mead and sometimes other alcohols. There is also a connected ritual called a symbel which involves passing round a mead horn and making toasts on designated themes such as ancestors or deities. Edited for clarity. |
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Post by Tegernacus on Oct 13, 2008 12:09:14 GMT -1
hmmm... not sure. In modern Welsh, there is:
gŵyl, which is festival or feast (well known)
defod which is ritual, rite, ceremony, custom (probably comes from the same root as devotion - Megli?)
aberth - Sacrifice, offering.
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Post by Lee on Oct 13, 2008 12:43:56 GMT -1
Defod i like the sound of - largely because it has no prior associations. it can also be applied to a lot of circumstances as a general term.
Aberth would i suppose be our version of a Blot.
whilst the heathen model is excellent and provides a great amount of inspiration, i think we should be cautious about wholesale transplantation of thier ideas and concepts, we dont neccessarily need to have something ideantical but brythonic, we might also need our own terms and ideas which they dont have.
as to biggie festivals - currently im thinking on the matter. i mean, what exactly are we celebrating on those dates? to many of us the harvest is largely irrelevant - to a few it is still a huge matter. my current persoanl practice doesnt really involve much at a couple fo the festivals and far more emphasis on others. in those cases, Gwyl works well i think.
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Post by jez on Oct 13, 2008 12:46:48 GMT -1
A blot - comes from the word for blood, probably, yes.
A kindred comes together at a significant time or for a significant event.
A feast is prepared by the host - that feast consists of ritually/mindfully prepared ingredients. Food is holy in this context. You would not be popping down to Tescos at the last minute thinking, um, what's on offer today?
This feast is often, though not always, dedicated to one deity. But it could be all the gods, or the ancestors, of whatever - as appropriate.
The best thing would be - people bringing things they had grown, or sourced with thought, or raised and had butchered in the best way they could - at the last Grey Mare camp we had a lamb called Flossie, who was raised and taken to slaughter by one of the camp members and brought down to be roast by the camp-fire...
And nowadays, then costs would have to be shared, as no-one is a 'lord' in the old sense of 'loaf-provider' with the resources to just take on such a project.
BUT - make the host the one in complete charge, with the authority to organise what people bring, so that you get a good selection of stuff without too much overlap. People will have things from their own places which are special, after all, and others will be able to source good basics, such as well-made bread, or whatever...
--
If you can find a portmanteu word that equates to holy-feast or sacred-food-gathering then you might be on the same wavelength.
--
Jez
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Post by megli on Oct 13, 2008 13:43:09 GMT -1
Not sure of the etymology of defod - but an f arises from an old b or m so it must come from demot- or debot- or similar. Will look it up in GPC.
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